"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not
partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
'Election' Does Not Teach Limited Atonement 'Free Will' Does - From Old Gospel Vs. New Gospel; Rolfe Barnard 1960? [Audio]
Audio reposted.. as don't suppose this could be reposted too many times it is worth hearing over and over again.. Election vs. Free Will:
*** Free will or election. Only one can be true. And which one of these 'gospels' actually limits atonement? This is the subject of this short but very much classic sermon "The Old Gospel versus a New Gospel" from widely regarded evangelist of days past, Rolfe Barnard (1904-1969). The audio-only clip below is about 24 minutes long. Well worth 24 minutes of close attention...if not 48 minutes or even 72 minutes. The audio is an original recording from a radio broadcast date unknown but that had to have been pre-1969 so is somewhat raspy - have to listen closely. A portion is transcribed below:
*** vidlink
[13:15] "...we have to go on and explain that after all, nothing that God and Christ have done can save us...unless we add something to it. Now my friends if I'm not telling the truth about what's called the gospel today I want you to write me and straighten me out. We thus preach that the 'decisive factor' which [acting?]...what we really say is the Christ saves us with our help...and if you think that out what that really means is we save ourselves...with Christ's help. But my friends, if we start, as is done now, by affirming that God has a saving love for everybody, and that Christ died a saving death for everybody...and yet we do not preach that everybody will be saved, we just show how foolish we are. The man who preaches that Christ died in a saving way for everybody...has got to preach that everybody must be saved. The man who preaches that God has a saving love for everybody...has got to preach...that everybody must be saved. But we say brother Barnard we don't believe that. I know but that's what you preach.
You get in an awful stew...ohhhh...how I will [...?] about it...these folks running around here limiting the purpose and love of God:
[who say] "Wait just a minute we are simply saying that the old gospel limited the work and love of Christ simply this way...that the love of God accomplished all it was sent to do. And that the love of Christ dying for our sins means that those whom it was meant for are to be saved"
Now we need to be clear here. In this kind of preaching is the popular preaching of the day, instead of exalting the grace of God and magnifying the cross of Christ...we cheapen them. And people who preach that way limit the atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ. People say to me brother Barnard...you believe in the limited atonement? And I say no but most of all the preachers in this country do...for they preach that Christ didn't actually accomplish what he set out to do...he just made possible something he hoped might accidentally take place. My friends the old gospel says of Christ...that Christ's death saves...aaall whom it was meant to save. The new gospel says that Christ's death, as such, actually saves nobody - what's good news about that?
What's good news about that? No wonder my friends you can go into most any church in this section today, and in three or four nights you enter the line, 95% of the people in the congregation will be saying that that fellow is preaching the truth.
Then I'm not saved. No wonder my friends that Baptists who've always said we believe in the eternal security of the believer...it's hard to find the Baptist now who feels any security - WHY? Well they've believed a gospel about a God who's made salvation possible...not a gospel about a God who actually saves. Dear old brother Spurgeon whom the preachers quote today but hate his gospel...they accused him of preaching the limited atonement and he answered in this way and I quote him. Brother Spurgeon said we are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ because we say that Christ has not made a satisfaction for all men...or all men would be saved.
Now our reply to this is, brother Spurgeon says, that on the other hand, our opponents limit the work of Christ...we do not. Our opponents say Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by him dying for all men. Ask them did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men..and they say noooo...certainly not. We ask them the next question...did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular...they answer no. They are obliged to admit this if they are consistent...they say no...Christ has died in order that any man may be saved...if...and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Now, says Mr. Spurgeon, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why it's you...you say that Christ did not die so as infallibly to secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon...when you say we limit Christ's death we say nooo my dear sir...it is you that limits it. We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved...but are saved. Must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement, says Mr. Spurgeon, you may keep it...we will never renounce ours for the sake of it. - [20:00]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Romans 9:22-23 'What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory'
9 comments
:
Anonymous
said...
Amen! Thank you for posting. If grace is a gift, then none can demand it. Therefore, as salvation is by grace, the free gift of God, then He bestows it on whom He pleases. Because salvation is by grace, the very chief of sinners is not beyond the reach of Divine mercy. Because salvation is by grace, boasting is excluded and God gets all the glory. Salvation is not a right or an entitlement!
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
God is the justifier of all who believe in his Son Jesus, and who receive him as their personal Saviour.
Believeth comes from the greek word "pisteuo" and means "commit unto,trust, be committed unto, commit to (one's) trust, to think to be true, to be persuaded of, place confidence in.
1 John 5:5 (KJV)
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 4:15 (KJV)
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:10 (KJV)
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Borrowing the words of Rolfe Barnard from above audio:
[5:00] "I tell you the old gospel preached that God first last in between all the time he takes the initiative...he is the author and the finisher of our faith... [6:25] The converts of the new gospel say I decided for Christ. The converts of the old gospel say praise God I can glory in nothing save the cross of Christ"
I think this misrepresents the non-Calvinist. All I did was believe on Christ and he saved me. That meansall the glory goes to him for saving me. Salvation is a gift to all but it must be received. The Bible is clear that one must believe and this is in contrast to works. That is why God decided it would be by faith not by works. So Jesus gets all the glory not some human being. If a person responds in faith when they hear the gospel that is not them taking the initiative that is them responding to God taking the initiative. Faith is not a work.
Sadly, Calvinism distorts the true Gospel. There are so many points that can be made in that regard. I recommend a book by Dave Hunt; "What Love Is This?", it clearly elucidates the problems with Calvinism in light of the Biblical Gospel. Don't fall for the trap called 'Calvinism.'
When you were born into this world by your mother and father did you have anything to do with it? - no
Neither does a person when they are 'born of God' or 'born again'.
Every person 'in Adam' is dead in trespasses and sin - Eph. 2:1. A dead person can not 'respond' to anything - dead means dead. A dead person can not even "just believe".
Like Lazarus - 4 days dead [John 11:14] - until the Lord Jesus called him by name and said "come forth" - John 11:43. Made alive and called - by the Word of God - then and only then did dead Lazarus respond. All of God. This is the picture.
No salvation is possible unless and until the dead person is first made alive i.e. "quickened" by the Holy Ghost:
'And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins' - Eph. 2:1
Those that the Holy Ghost quickens are those whom He has chosen "in him" (Christ) before the foundation of the world - Eph. 1:4. These he makes alive and then calls them.
It is called 'election'. The fact that many do not like (unbelief) the 'doctrine of election' does not change anything. The Word of God teaches 'election'.
Calvin wrote no scripture. The scriptural "doctrine of election" has nothing to do with John Calvin. "Calvinism" is just a label used to attack the doctrine of election.
As for the "true gospel" - the sovereignty of God in "election" is the true gospel - Rom. 9:20-21
Like it or not, believe it or not, that's just the fact of it...
Charting the rising one world government, the emerging global spirituality, and the apostasy of the Christian church worldwide. Bringing the picture into focus.[Hover on linked scripture verses for pop-up window]
Horatius Bonar [1808-1889]; 6 mins. Mt. 25:2-3;
also read: 'Foolish Virgins' by CHM
A. W. Tozer [1960?]; 24 mins.
'Enoch would go' [original recording]
It is of the utmost importance for the Christian reader to bear in mind that, whatever be the condition of the professing Church, it is his privilege to enjoy as high communion and to tread as high a path of individual devotedness as ever was known in the very brightest days of the Church's history. We must never draw a plea from the condition of things around us for lowering the standard of individual holiness and devotedness. There is no excuse for continuing a single hour in connection with anything that will not stand the test of Holy Scripture.
9 comments :
Amen! Thank you for posting. If grace is a gift, then none can demand it. Therefore, as salvation is by grace, the free gift of God, then He bestows it on whom He pleases. Because salvation is by grace, the very chief of sinners is not beyond the reach of Divine mercy. Because salvation is by grace, boasting is excluded and God gets all the glory. Salvation is not a right or an entitlement!
That was a great sermon. Thanks for posting it.
John 3:16-19 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
God is the justifier of all who believe in his Son Jesus, and who receive him as their personal Saviour.
Believeth comes from the greek word "pisteuo" and means "commit unto,trust, be committed unto, commit to (one's) trust, to think to be true, to be persuaded of, place confidence in.
1 John 5:5 (KJV)
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 4:15 (KJV)
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:10 (KJV)
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Whosoever!
In response to SoJ (above comment)
Borrowing the words of Rolfe Barnard from above audio:
[5:00] "I tell you the old gospel preached that God first last in between all the time he takes the initiative...he is the author and the finisher of our faith... [6:25] The converts of the new gospel say I decided for Christ. The converts of the old gospel say praise God I can glory in nothing save the cross of Christ"
https://www.gotquestions.org/limited-atonement.html
I think this misrepresents the non-Calvinist. All I did was believe on Christ and he saved me. That meansall the glory goes to him for saving me. Salvation is a gift to all but it must be received. The Bible is clear that one must believe and this is in contrast to works. That is why God decided it would be by faith not by works. So Jesus gets all the glory not some human being. If a person responds in faith when they hear the gospel that is not them taking the initiative that is them responding to God taking the initiative. Faith is not a work.
Sadly, Calvinism distorts the true Gospel.
There are so many points that can be made in that regard.
I recommend a book by Dave Hunt; "What Love Is This?",
it clearly elucidates the problems with Calvinism in light of
the Biblical Gospel. Don't fall for the trap called 'Calvinism.'
to Andrew B. (2nd above):
When you were born into this world by your mother and father did you have anything to do with it? - no
Neither does a person when they are 'born of God' or 'born again'.
Every person 'in Adam' is dead in trespasses and sin - Eph. 2:1. A dead person can not 'respond' to anything - dead means dead. A dead person can not even "just believe".
Like Lazarus - 4 days dead [John 11:14] - until the Lord Jesus called him by name and said "come forth" - John 11:43. Made alive and called - by the Word of God - then and only then did dead Lazarus respond. All of God. This is the picture.
No salvation is possible unless and until the dead person is first made alive i.e. "quickened" by the Holy Ghost:
'And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins' - Eph. 2:1
Those that the Holy Ghost quickens are those whom He has chosen "in him" (Christ) before the foundation of the world - Eph. 1:4. These he makes alive and then calls them.
It is called 'election'. The fact that many do not like (unbelief) the 'doctrine of election' does not change anything. The Word of God teaches 'election'.
That is just how it is - Rom. 9:21
Give glory to God...
to anon [2nd above]:
see above comment
also re: "Calvinism"
Calvin wrote no scripture. The scriptural "doctrine of election" has nothing to do with John Calvin. "Calvinism" is just a label used to attack the doctrine of election.
As for the "true gospel" - the sovereignty of God in "election" is the true gospel - Rom. 9:20-21
Like it or not, believe it or not, that's just the fact of it...
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