Matthew 25:2-3 'And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them...'
But what about the unfaithful? What about professing Christendom? I have not a word of comfort to say [Jude 11]; for as the hour of trial will surely come upon the Jewish nation as a chastening of their unbelief in rejecting Him who came in His Father's name [Matt. 27:24-25], the true Christ, and in receiving him who comes in his own name [John 5:43], so will it also be a time of trouble and of darkness, of terror and ruin, for corrupt, apostate Christendom; even as our Lord warned Thyatira that He casts Jezebel into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation [Rev. 2:22]. Believe the word of God. It is slippery ground, and argues boundless confidence in one's self and mankind, to form a judgment of what is coming grounded on what we may see around us; especially if that judgment appear to contradict the clear warning of Scripture. Now the word of God is plain, that God is about to send strong delusion, that men should believe a lie; for He will give up Christendom, as He once gave up Judaism and Gentilism, to its own rebellious perdition [Rev. 3:16]. And what does not Christendom deserve at His hands? I speak of the unfaithful profession of Christ everywhere. Dealt with in infinite mercy, blest with the largest favours and the richest privileges, Christendom has lost its way as to truth and holiness and sense of grace and glory in Christ, far more than it has lost ground in actual outward hold upon the world.
I am not denying the mercy of God, that works through men who send out Bibles and missionaries here and there over the world in these days; but such societies now are no contradiction, but rather a confirmation, of the sad reality they find everywhere, still less are they a reason why the day of the Lord will not shine with scathing light on the moral darkness of Christendom. On the contrary, here are the too sure indications of the great final crisis — the mass of men settling down, not only in infidelity, but in that phase of it which takes the character of apostate Christianity; not the profane scepticism of a Rousseau or a Voltaire, but the theological infidelity of the day — that of men who still profess to be Christians, yea, teachers and dignitaries, it may be in high positions, professorial or episcopal....Therefore I do not mention the fact to throw stones at individuals, but to pray that those who love Christ may labour more earnestly because they know of the fearful growing swamp of delusion into which Christendom is about to fall. The more I am assured of the love of Christ, the more it will act upon my soul; the more I am assured of the destruction that awaits the world, the greater the need to warn men, if peradventure some may be saved. Therefore may God bless His own truth, and keep His children's eyes on the coming of Christ [2Thes. 3:5, free from anxious speculation about the predicted troubles for the earth, as if such must be their pathway to heaven [1Thes. 1:10]. Waiting for Him in the communion of His patience, we shall be caught up to meet and be with Him [Rev. 19:7], ere the hour of temptation envelopes this guilty world [Rev. 3:10]. William Kelly (Plymouth Brethern) - 1870's?
***
Don't believe in the (pre-trib*) "rapture" of the blood-bought [Acts 20:28], regenerate [2Cor. 5:17], seated in heavenly places [Eph. 2:6; Rev. 4:4] bride of Christ? Many bible verses will need to be rewritten then. Here is one example:
Phil. 3:20 KJV 'For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ'
Rewritten ABC version: 'For our conversation isin heaven on this earth; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ watch in fear for Antichrist'
(*seems 'pre-trib' must now be also qualified with a 'pre-antichrist' designation, as some professed pre-trib 'believers' are now putting the coming of the AC 'pre' the 'pretrib')
Classic Gospel Music: Midnight Cry
Rev. 18:4
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Matthew 25: 10-12 'And...the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.' [link]
But what about the unfaithful? What about professing Christendom? I have not a word of comfort to say [Jude 11]; for as the hour of trial will surely come upon the Jewish nation as a chastening of their unbelief in rejecting Him who came in His Father's name [Matt. 27:24-25], the true Christ, and in receiving him who comes in his own name [John 5:43], so will it also be a time of trouble and of darkness, of terror and ruin, for corrupt, apostate Christendom; even as our Lord warned Thyatira that He casts Jezebel into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation [Rev. 2:22]. Believe the word of God. It is slippery ground, and argues boundless confidence in one's self and mankind, to form a judgment of what is coming grounded on what we may see around us; especially if that judgment appear to contradict the clear warning of Scripture. Now the word of God is plain, that God is about to send strong delusion, that men should believe a lie; for He will give up Christendom, as He once gave up Judaism and Gentilism, to its own rebellious perdition [Rev. 3:16]. And what does not Christendom deserve at His hands? I speak of the unfaithful profession of Christ everywhere. Dealt with in infinite mercy, blest with the largest favours and the richest privileges, Christendom has lost its way as to truth and holiness and sense of grace and glory in Christ, far more than it has lost ground in actual outward hold upon the world.
I am not denying the mercy of God, that works through men who send out Bibles and missionaries here and there over the world in these days; but such societies now are no contradiction, but rather a confirmation, of the sad reality they find everywhere, still less are they a reason why the day of the Lord will not shine with scathing light on the moral darkness of Christendom. On the contrary, here are the too sure indications of the great final crisis — the mass of men settling down, not only in infidelity, but in that phase of it which takes the character of apostate Christianity; not the profane scepticism of a Rousseau or a Voltaire, but the theological infidelity of the day — that of men who still profess to be Christians, yea, teachers and dignitaries, it may be in high positions, professorial or episcopal....Therefore I do not mention the fact to throw stones at individuals, but to pray that those who love Christ may labour more earnestly because they know of the fearful growing swamp of delusion into which Christendom is about to fall. The more I am assured of the love of Christ, the more it will act upon my soul; the more I am assured of the destruction that awaits the world, the greater the need to warn men, if peradventure some may be saved. Therefore may God bless His own truth, and keep His children's eyes on the coming of Christ [2Thes. 3:5, free from anxious speculation about the predicted troubles for the earth, as if such must be their pathway to heaven [1Thes. 1:10]. Waiting for Him in the communion of His patience, we shall be caught up to meet and be with Him [Rev. 19:7], ere the hour of temptation envelopes this guilty world [Rev. 3:10]. William Kelly (Plymouth Brethern) - 1870's?
***
Don't believe in the (pre-trib*) "rapture" of the blood-bought [Acts 20:28], regenerate [2Cor. 5:17], seated in heavenly places [Eph. 2:6; Rev. 4:4] bride of Christ? Many bible verses will need to be rewritten then. Here is one example:
Phil. 3:20 KJV 'For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ'
Rewritten ABC version: 'For our conversation is
(*seems 'pre-trib' must now be also qualified with a 'pre-antichrist' designation, as some professed pre-trib 'believers' are now putting the coming of the AC 'pre' the 'pretrib')
Classic Gospel Music: Midnight Cry
Rev. 18:4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 25: 10-12 'And...the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.' [link]
Nope. No pretrib rapture. None of the verses they use to support it uphold it. Yes, of course Jesus is returning from heaven, but when? It does not imply pretrib. Take every verse they use and you can see it does not support it but can be used for prewrath, such as the one about having delivered us from the 'wrath to come.' Of course we are not under God's wrath. But neither was Noah and God did not remove him from the planet during that worldwide judgment. I studied up on this and there is no verse that can convince me of pretrib. But... if it is right... then some bible verses will have to be rewritten... like 2 Thess. 2. Pretrib means before the antichrist shows up during the tribulation. Yet the rapture can't happen until AFTER the antichrist is revealed. It also unites the return and the rapture in that set of verses, see
ReplyDelete2 Thess. 2; 1-12.
Don't be mad. Just do a timeline and see if you can get a pretrib out of it somehow.
Otherwise it's an interesting blog.
Seems irony is lost on some. As is truth. Daniel 2:47. Maranatha.
ReplyDelete2Thes. Day of Christ not the rapture
ReplyDeleteFor the record:
In 2Thes. 2:2 the phrase "the day of Christ" does not refer to the 'rapture'. The phrase 'the day of Christ' in this verse refers to the actual "2nd coming", as described in Rev. 19:11 onward, also Matt. 24:27-30
2Thes. 2 is not at all a rapture passage. The Thessalonians had been distressed and told, same as today, that there was no rapture, but that instead the 2nd coming was soon i.e. "at hand". The Apostle pens this passage to inform them (and we are all the beneficiaries of this occasion for writing) that the second coming is not at hand, as the 'falling away' and the revealing of the "man of sin" had not yet occurred, the '2nd coming' could not yet occur either...
Meaning essentially that there was nothing to worry about...the rapture was still on, as it were (v.1 'we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him')
He then goes on to exhort them, saying:
v. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle
Stand fast and hold the traditions, is the message for believers today.
***
Note: Noah in the ark does not represent the church. Noah was a 'type' of the Jewish remnant that will go through the tribulation.
Enoch, who "walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" - Gen. 5:24 (before the flood), is though a 'type' of the pre-trib rapture of the church.
There is no invisible secret return of Christ, that is not biblical, even Jesus warned about that in Matthew 24, he said don't believe those who say he is in the desert or inner rooms as every eye will see him coming on the clouds
ReplyDeleteMatt. 24 the 2nd coming not the rapture
ReplyDeleteEvery eye will see him, yes, at the actual second coming. This will be, as mentioned above,"the day of Christ".
This event will not be in secret, no, it will be the revelation and manifestation of Christ Jesus the Lord with power and great glory [Matt. 24:30] before all the world. It will take place in 'broad daylight'...
Ah, but as for His very own bride [Eph. 5:29-32], the Bridegroom will come, not in broad daylight, but before the 'break of day' [link]...as the "bright and morning star" - Rev. 22:16
Pre-trib catching-up [1Thes. 4:16-17] "not biblical"?
Nothing could be further from the truth. For any unable to 'see' this...
have to say it like this...there is an 'eye' problem - Psalms 119:18
***
Rev. 22:20
A secret invisible return of Jesus Christ would of been news to the early church, they didnt believe in such a thing. Read the writings of the anti-nicene brethren. They had no teaching of a secret rapture. Prophecy is not subject to private interpretation
ReplyDeletere: "A secret invisible return of Jesus Christ would of been news to the early church, they didnt believe in such a thing...anti-nicene brethern"
ReplyDeleteVery simply, this argument is untrue and has been refuted time and time again. In fact even some who deny 'pre-trib' concede the fact - for instance champion of pre-trib denial J.Barton Payne himself admitted the truth on the issue, and quoted "anti-nicenes" Clement and Ignatius in doing so:
I. HISTORICAL POSITIONS
THE EARLY CHURCH. Prior to the Council of Nicaea in 325 the church in general held two convictions respecting the sequence of events in Christ's second coming.3 (1) It expected His appearing any day. I Clement 23 (A.D. 96) states, "Soon and suddenly shall He come"; and Ignatius to the Ephesians I (c. A.D. 105) , "The last times are come upon us." Now was it simply a complex of events that was imminent or was it Christ's own appearing? "Look for Him"5 (2) The early church anticipated His coming as post-tribulational, that is, as subsequent to the persecutions they would suffer at the hands of the antichrist and to the heavenly phenomena that would inaugurate the wrath of God against this evil one. Barnabas 4 (before 100) warns, "Withstand coming sources of danger . . . the Black One." Nor was it simply tribulation in general;6 it was the great tribulation: "Christ shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy . . . shall venture to do unlawful deeds on earth against us Christians."7 That both of these convictions were held at the same time arises from the early church's contemporaneous, or as we would call it, historical, method of prophetic interpretation. source
Was a pre trib rapture "news to the early church"? Nothing could be further from the truth. The apostle Paul taught 'pre-trib', and wrote of it in the Word of God. Does not get any earlier than that.
Granted, the attack to deny imminency and 'pre-trib' began very early. What truths of Scripture were not from the beginning vigorously attacked by Satan [2Cor. 2:17], and continue to be to this day? The vigorous attack on the truth of the pre-trib rapture of the bride of Christ (foolish virgins not included) comes from the same source.
Ultimately, the truth of any doctrine rests not on human writings, but on the correctly understood Word of God alone...'But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned' 1Cor. 2:14
A correct understanding of the Word of God, Genesis through Revelation, is the one and only source for the indisputable truth of the teaching of the imminent pre-tribulational coming of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
It is the natural man who finds this incomprehensible...it is foolishness to him, neither can he know 1Cor. 2:14.
That explains a lot. Unbelief blinds.
To deny a scriptural truth, Kayfabe, any scriptural truth, is a dangerous thing to do. It is to pit oneself against the Spirit of God.
'Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have' Luke 8:18
Rev. 18:4
We will have to disagree then cuz not one Pre trib proponent can give a plain straight forward scripture supporting pre trib, its always doing scriptural gymnastics to make it fit. Just read 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 : 1-3
ReplyDelete2Thes. 2:1-3 was explained - 3rd comment from top or here
ReplyDelete"A plain straight forward scripture supporting pre trib":
Rev. 3:10 'Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth'
The bolded word 'from' in the Greek is "ek" meaning: [1537] - from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)
The verse is referring to the true church, a very clear statement that they will be kept 'out of' (from) the hour of temptation i.e the tribulation. The tribulation begins with the opening of the first seal. The opening of the first seal is also the beginning of the "wrath of the Lamb" - Rev. 6:16-17. The bride of Christ will be kept from - out of - it all. This is pre-trib plain and simple (pre-wrath also).
No gymnastics, as charged. Pre-trib is based on an absolutely literal interpretation of scripture taken in the plainest sense possible.
Here is another straightforward scripture supporting pre-trib, for the record:
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ - 1Thes. 5:9
The great tribulation and persecution of the saints is from the antichrist not God. The wrath of God is not the great tribulation. Also your reference to the Philadelphia church has nothing to do with the rapture, nice try with your twisting of scripture. I have seen pre tribbers use that before, its talking about a specific church that existed at that time. It's message is also timeless for us today.
ReplyDeleteKayfabe,
ReplyDeleteWithout taking the time to refute all the gross error contained in your one paragraph above (for it is replete with), just this one utterly nonsensical statement from the above paragraph will suffice to make the point:
re: "The wrath of God is not the great tribulation"
Say what? The great tribulation not the wrath of God? One really should read the Book of Revelation before speaking about the Book of Revelation:
Rev. 16:1 'And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth'
After all your above comments, and with this one statement proving conclusively the point, the verdict is clear Kayfabe...
You have absolutely no idea, none - zero, what you are talking about - Matt. 22:29
The cause of blindness is unbelief.
Thy speech bewrayeth thee - i.e. spouting nonsense - it is unbelief.
At any rate, you've had your say, you've made your position clear, and it's time to give it a rest, i'll not post any more 'Kayfabe-isms' here as it will be of no profit to any.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus - Rev. 22:20