reposted from 6-27-11; see comments
***
Pastors: Christianity Rejected, Deemed 'Evil' for Opposing Homosexuality
Christianity is being rejected and deemed evil by many today because it opposes homosexual practice, say pastors from The Gospel Coalition.
The Gospel Coalition held a Council meeting several weeks ago to discuss current issues and the state of ministry among evangelicals. Among the topics discussed was homosexuality.
"All the participants of the panel on homosexuality at The Gospel Coalition Council meetings agreed that we have entered one of the most difficult challenges to a gospel-centered approach to evangelism," he [John Piper] wrote. "The reason is not that the center of the Christian gospel has changed, but the center of the cultural gospel has changed. That center for many is the freedom to be GLBT and to be approved."
"[W]hether we want to make this a frontline issue or not, increasingly it is," Piper said of homosexuality. And pastors, he added, must address it.
For now, the TGC panel concluded: "One of the most powerful things we can do is fold into our churches men and women who have same-sex attraction and surround them with a bigger vision of life and love and relationships that make it possible for them to flourish in families and friendships. These stories may be one of the most authenticating messages for the Christian gospel."
The Gospel Coalition is a "fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ and to reforming our ministry practices to conform fully to the Scriptures." Council members include Tim Keller of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Matt Chandler of The Village Church, D.A. Carson of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and Erwin Lutzer of The Moody Church.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: 'all the participants of the panel on homosexuality...agreed...fold into our churches'
The Hegelian dialectic is once again working it's dark magic, this time being utilized by the homosexual agenda to force further inroads into the outward professing Christian church in 2012. As is always done when the dialectic is employed, a group is called to meet and discuss a certain controversial topic, which then results in a "meeting of the minds", or a consensus, in order to find a solution to the question at hand. And as always, the resulting solution is an incremental advance of the desired outcome. That is exactly what is seen here. The so-called Gospel Coalition, led by Piper, Chandler, Keller, Carson, and Lutzer has determined that homosexuals, unrepentant, unregenerate, openly defiant of God's eternal word in refusing to acknowledge their sin, should be "folded into our churches". The reason given for this decision - as the story goes - is because they [GLBT-gang] said...'you're evil if you don't let us'. Oh no, not that.
This 'decision' reached by the fearless leaders of Global Kristianity 2012, Piper, et. al, definitely represents a new level of encroachment by the homosexual agend-ites toward unquestioning membership in the Christendom sectors of the fast growing Babylonian world religion of today.
The very fact that these professed leaders of the 'Christian community' would actually meet to convene a "panel on homosexuality" is the height of absurdity in the first place. And to give as the reason for meeting that "Christianity is deemed evil for opposing homosexuality" is even more ludicrous. And to then concede on that point and 'open the doors', as it were, so that they can come in and get comfortable and see that 'we're not evil' is unimaginable..except for the reality that the outward professing church of 2012 is absolutely apostate. Then it is perfectly understandable, even expected, truth be told. And seeing that the 'not-evil' Gospel Coalition has made the hospitable arrangements, they must be considered charter members of apostate Christendom 2012. It cannot be otherwise.
The Word of God is unambiguous on the matter. No discussion is required. To put aside the clear teaching of God's Word on the subject is heresy plain and simple. Christians are called "saints" in the Bible, for the reason that they have been set aside by the Lord to be holy. Sanctified is what the word signifies. To be witnesses of the Holiness of God in a corrupt world, to shine as lights in the darkness of this lost world filled with men hastening down the broad path to their own destruction, this is the calling of the true Christian [Phil. 2:15]. The sexually immoral do not qualify. For this reason the Spirit of God has directed the saints that they should not let those who practice such things....no, not even once, be named among you: Eph. 5:3 'But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints'
What part of that scripture do they not understand? Any so-called leader who deviates from this, regardless of prominence or past reputation, must not be followed. They are on a dead-end road to Laodicea. You must understand that you will not turn them from their course either. That will not happen. You though, on the other hand, will absolutely have to compromise if you do not separate. Often people do not even realize that they have compromised, but staying connected to the group is not possible without agreement, even unconsciously initially. Eventually you will even find yourself defending the position. That is how the dialectic works. When the group takes a wrong turn you're going with them unless you get off the bus.
"Folding" defiant unrepentant sinners into "our churches'" is a definite wrong turn. Warning warning, run for your life if you are under their teachings. Rev. 18:4
-------------------------------------------------------------
Matt. 10:34 'Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword'
***
Pastors: Christianity Rejected, Deemed 'Evil' for Opposing Homosexuality
Christianity is being rejected and deemed evil by many today because it opposes homosexual practice, say pastors from The Gospel Coalition.
The Gospel Coalition held a Council meeting several weeks ago to discuss current issues and the state of ministry among evangelicals. Among the topics discussed was homosexuality.
"All the participants of the panel on homosexuality at The Gospel Coalition Council meetings agreed that we have entered one of the most difficult challenges to a gospel-centered approach to evangelism," he [John Piper] wrote. "The reason is not that the center of the Christian gospel has changed, but the center of the cultural gospel has changed. That center for many is the freedom to be GLBT and to be approved."
"[W]hether we want to make this a frontline issue or not, increasingly it is," Piper said of homosexuality. And pastors, he added, must address it.
For now, the TGC panel concluded: "One of the most powerful things we can do is fold into our churches men and women who have same-sex attraction and surround them with a bigger vision of life and love and relationships that make it possible for them to flourish in families and friendships. These stories may be one of the most authenticating messages for the Christian gospel."
The Gospel Coalition is a "fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ and to reforming our ministry practices to conform fully to the Scriptures." Council members include Tim Keller of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Matt Chandler of The Village Church, D.A. Carson of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and Erwin Lutzer of The Moody Church.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: 'all the participants of the panel on homosexuality...agreed...fold into our churches'
The Hegelian dialectic is once again working it's dark magic, this time being utilized by the homosexual agenda to force further inroads into the outward professing Christian church in 2012. As is always done when the dialectic is employed, a group is called to meet and discuss a certain controversial topic, which then results in a "meeting of the minds", or a consensus, in order to find a solution to the question at hand. And as always, the resulting solution is an incremental advance of the desired outcome. That is exactly what is seen here. The so-called Gospel Coalition, led by Piper, Chandler, Keller, Carson, and Lutzer has determined that homosexuals, unrepentant, unregenerate, openly defiant of God's eternal word in refusing to acknowledge their sin, should be "folded into our churches". The reason given for this decision - as the story goes - is because they [GLBT-gang] said...'you're evil if you don't let us'. Oh no, not that.
This 'decision' reached by the fearless leaders of Global Kristianity 2012, Piper, et. al, definitely represents a new level of encroachment by the homosexual agend-ites toward unquestioning membership in the Christendom sectors of the fast growing Babylonian world religion of today.
The very fact that these professed leaders of the 'Christian community' would actually meet to convene a "panel on homosexuality" is the height of absurdity in the first place. And to give as the reason for meeting that "Christianity is deemed evil for opposing homosexuality" is even more ludicrous. And to then concede on that point and 'open the doors', as it were, so that they can come in and get comfortable and see that 'we're not evil' is unimaginable..except for the reality that the outward professing church of 2012 is absolutely apostate. Then it is perfectly understandable, even expected, truth be told. And seeing that the 'not-evil' Gospel Coalition has made the hospitable arrangements, they must be considered charter members of apostate Christendom 2012. It cannot be otherwise.
The Word of God is unambiguous on the matter. No discussion is required. To put aside the clear teaching of God's Word on the subject is heresy plain and simple. Christians are called "saints" in the Bible, for the reason that they have been set aside by the Lord to be holy. Sanctified is what the word signifies. To be witnesses of the Holiness of God in a corrupt world, to shine as lights in the darkness of this lost world filled with men hastening down the broad path to their own destruction, this is the calling of the true Christian [Phil. 2:15]. The sexually immoral do not qualify. For this reason the Spirit of God has directed the saints that they should not let those who practice such things....no, not even once, be named among you: Eph. 5:3 'But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints'
What part of that scripture do they not understand? Any so-called leader who deviates from this, regardless of prominence or past reputation, must not be followed. They are on a dead-end road to Laodicea. You must understand that you will not turn them from their course either. That will not happen. You though, on the other hand, will absolutely have to compromise if you do not separate. Often people do not even realize that they have compromised, but staying connected to the group is not possible without agreement, even unconsciously initially. Eventually you will even find yourself defending the position. That is how the dialectic works. When the group takes a wrong turn you're going with them unless you get off the bus.
"Folding" defiant unrepentant sinners into "our churches'" is a definite wrong turn. Warning warning, run for your life if you are under their teachings. Rev. 18:4
-------------------------------------------------------------
Matt. 10:34 'Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword'
Wow, nice post.........Igreja Crista Brasileira na Australia
ReplyDeleteThese are some of the biggest names in Christendom - and individually they each have a lot of influence - combined the influence is tremendous. Between them they are connected at some level to just about every Christian group probably worldwide. And the leaven is now spreading to each one. It is amazing (not in a good way) to see...
ReplyDeletetom m. made an interesting point, which I also have been postulating the possibility about, as a theory. My theory is, there is a giant "blob" called "evangelicalism" which is being controlled by the same people, who all defend each other, who all reject Biblical doctrine as correction.
ReplyDeleteLeaving simple Bible believers on the outside, if they don't want to go along with the blob.
Heb. 13:13-14
ReplyDelete'Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come'
wow. you have totally derailed. To say they meant to fold unrepentant, unconverted homosexuals as a way of placating the external homosexual agenda is ludicrous. If you read anything from these men you'll know that this is not just a one-off statement. This is in the vein of Paul saying "such were some of you." We don't have homosexual success stories because we are so quick to mock them and hate them. We need to love people who are homosexually broken just like we love people who are heterosexually broken.
ReplyDeleteAt no point could you read their blogs or listen to their sermons and see this in the context of capitulation.
Zack,
ReplyDeletere: capitulation
It's impossible to see it in any other way, despite the "pure" motive you ascribe. As stated in the article, the GLBT agenda has only one goal - which is "the freedom to be GLBT and to be approved".
It's the old proverb about the camel trying to get in the tent...once he gets his nose in...it's over. After the nose comes the full head, then upper torso, then it's only a matter of time and the whole camel is in the tent.
"As is" full acceptance - the GLBT movement has absolutely no other goal. And since you seem to have fallen for the propaganda that they are in some way a special category and deserve special treatment, maybe you should review the following scripture:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind*, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1Cor.6:9-10
(*"Abusers of themselves with mankind". The Greek word is arsenokoites. Strong's Greek dictionary gives the definition "sodomite": arsenokoites (ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace) : from 730 and 2845; a sodomite:--abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.
The Greek word itself, as seen, is a composite of two other words...#730 "arsen" which means male, and #2845 "koite" which basically means 'intercourse'; Vines Expository Dictionary. - that is self-explanatory)
The point is that the homosexual is not at all a special class of "broken" people, to use your word, but according to the Word of God as given in 1Cor. 6:9-10, are simply a sub-group of a broader classification of general sinners, i.e. rebels against the holiness and authority of God Almighty. To make "special allowances" in order to circumvent the truth is to do violence to the Word of God.
Yet, you and the 'Gospel Coalition' would like us all to look the other way when it comes to this one group, and welcome them into the 'fold'. Maybe they will change...maybe they won't, but that isn't the important thing right now, just love on them anyway, right. It's a "cultural gospel" thing you know, whatever that's supposed to mean. What about the other groups? Will you have them folded in too - thieves, drunkards, revilers, etc. ...even when they do not want to give up their particular activities?
To unapologetically proclaim the truth of the Word of God to any of these 'groups', which is to let them know in no uncertain terms that they can not be accepted "as is", is not hate, as you charge. On the contrary, that is the only way to really "love on them".
Be not deceived, says the Bible in 1Cor. 6:9
And to repeat: Eph. 5:3 'But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints'
Here's the thing, if someone commits adultery, even once, then they are an adulterer. If, after repentance, they come to your church to join, will you let them in? Was Paul saying that anyone who had ever committed adultery was automatically barred from the kingdom of God, or was he saying that anyone who gives themselves over to adultery, who resides in adultery, anyone who refuses to repent from adultery, will be barred from the kingdom of God?
ReplyDeleteI believe the latter. The guys from TGC that you mentioned are saying the same thing, except they're talking about people who struggle with "same sex attraction." They are identical to me, who struggles with opposite sex attraction, but yet they are not identified by their sinful struggle, rather by their identity in Christ. Just like you and just like me.
This isn't about "homosexuals" joining our churches, this is about reaching people with same sex attraction, sharing the gospel with them, and watching them be changed by God, just like you and just like me.
None of these men would say that homosexuality is anything but sinful, and if you don't want to spend the 30sec on google to prove it I can send you links.
I was clicking around on the internet and I found this. I think it gives a great example of what these men think (spoken by Al Mohler). Thanks for your consideration.
ReplyDeleteZack,
ReplyDeleteagain, the GLBT, as a group, is not in any way seeking to submit themselves to the Word of God. They want only one thing...which is full acceptance of the 'arsenokoites' lifestyle in the 'Christian world'
Certainly there is grace aplently for any individual that truly desires to be set free from their sin, any sin. That is not what this is about though. And there need be no 'group' distinction made for that individual either.
And again, to convene a 'panel on homosexuality' is absurd. Who in the world came up with that one? The GLBT? This is hegelian dialectic methodology - plain as can be. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. In this instance, on the so-called hotbutton topic of 'homosexuality and Christianity', with the resulting synthesis being, quote: "For now, the TGC panel concluded: "One of the most powerful things we can do is fold into our churches men and women who have same-sex attraction""
"For now" is how that is worded. That of course becomes the new thesis, which will broaden a bit more each time the dialectic exercise is run - which it will be, over and over again until the objective is achieved. That will be "later".
Regardless of what the TGC leaders say about the 'sin' of homosexuality (no links necessary - I'm aware), the bottom line is that TGC has opened the door to the GLBT and their agenda, and just like the camel they are coming in and will not be stopped.
If you do not see that then there is not much more I can do for you. Mark these words though...you will see it 'later'.
Anyway, we're not doing a 'panel'...and as my position is not going to change obviously no consensus is possible, so might as well leave it here...and so be it. Good luck with the dialectic. Anybody else...recommend again head for the door.
Luke 13:24 'Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able'
Zack,
ReplyDeleteWell one more comment needed here now, in reference to the link you left in your third comment (two up from this one) which i did not see before posting my reply comment above.
On the page you linked to is a video and an article about a comment made by Al Mohler, where he admits to making a statement in which he is confessing, for Christianity at large, as a fault, two things. One is lying, and the second, using the homosexual agenda's own term, is "homophobia":
Al Mohler: "We've (Southern Baptists) lied about the nature of homosexuality and have practiced what can only be described as homophobia… We've used the choice language when it is clear that sexual orientation is a deep inner struggle and not merely a matter of choice."
This is an absolute absurdity.
Lying? Won't even take that horrendous statement up here, it is so far over the top, but let us consider for a moment Mohler's charge of "homophobia". The word itself is a manipulative use of language, an invented word coined by the homosexual agenda. Opposition to the radical homosexual agenda has nothing at all to do with fear - not even with 'fear of the unknown' - as that is really what the thought is supposed to suggest, which is then supposed to give it more of a non-threatening spin - something like 'c'mon in the water's warm'.
For the record, there is no such thing as "homophobia".
To make that statement while at the same time preaching the 'sin' of homosexuality is a classic use of the dialectic. Using the language of the homosexual lobby, Mohler just "capitulated" to it, and gave up the ground of truth, never to be recovered.
Now, according to Mohler, Christians have been relegated to the ground of 'lying' and 'ignorance' with regard to the so-called deeper issues concerning the homosexual's plight...and it is fear-driven, says Mohler, in solid agreement with the radical homosexual agenda.
The only possible way to see it is that Mohler, ignorantly or knowingly, is on board with the homosexualizing-of-Christendom agenda too.
And that is cause for serious alarm for any that are under his influence. Rev. 18:4
I still feel like maybe we are talking past each other. Here's a simple question.
ReplyDeleteYou are a pastor (you may or may not be, I don't know, but in this question you are) and a man comes up to you and says "I am attracted to other men. I believe the bible repudiates such behavior and it's a sin. I refuse to act on it and I am relying on the power of the Holy Spirit to keep from acting on it. Can I join your church?"
Assuming this man can explain the gospel, can sign your confession of faith, and shows other fruits of the spirit, would you let him join?
Thank you for the recent Sermon of the Week audios. I especially liked the one by JC Ryle...Luke 6:39--Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
ReplyDeleteKeep on pressing on and earnestly contend for the faith.
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
...Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood....
Zack, that question (2 comments up) was already answered above (4 up). Here's the quote:
ReplyDelete"Certainly there is grace aplently for any individual that truly desires to be set free from their sin, any sin. That is not what this is about though. And there need be no 'group' distinction made for that individual either."
...when truly 'born again', any individual will be set free from the bondage of any sin: 1John 3:9 'Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God' ...and praise the Lord Jesus Christ for that.
Okay, that one is settled. But, once again, this is not the issue confronting the 'Christian worldview' in this our day. The homosexual agendizers are not the slightest bit interested in the 'repentant individual'. Like every other area of society today, they are not asking but demanding full acceptance 'as is' in the 'Christian world' - and you know that is true.
Full acceptance as both 'homosexual' and 'Christian' is the only goal. It's already happening all over the place too, e.g. the Episcopalians recently allowing ordaining of transgenders.
Facts are facts. The facts here are that TGC and Mohler have opened the door to the greater evangelical world. They have unleashed the hegelian dialectic with regard to the issue, and the "homosexual-christian" movement is invading. The results will be tragic.
Don't fall for it Zack.
Al Mohler using the word "homophobia", means he is in the wrong mindframe regarding this. And the "gospel coalition" doesn't speak for me. Or the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteJust found this site today.
ReplyDeleteWhen Mr. Mohler came out last year with that quote, it seemed he was doing exactly the same things that many others have done in capitulating. He's not and may not ever (may even reverse course) get to the point of others like McLaren, et al.
However, the TGC, SBC and others like Yancy have come out either affirming, or giving much too much ground on this issue.
This isn't an issue of whether someone would be welcomed at a church. That should be a non-starter. Anyone who wants to know Christ and visit a church should be welcomed.
The bigger issue is and it IS happening, and WILL happen more, is the push by govt. into outright banning speech in this and rest assured other areas of sin.
As tom m said (in my own words) this is just the start point. Homosexuals have EVERY intention of overturning the rest of the churches as they have the mainline demoninations. It will be pushed by laws just like Europe!
Nothing has happened under the sun, that hasn't already happened under the sun.
This isn't just Tg'ers either. I'm not one though. I believe with Driscoll and Piper saying Warren is perfectly orthodox, then Warren goes out and says the Cardinal's who have been bilking people of multi-billions of dollars, covering up homosexual priests not only in churches, but a massive issue in the Vatican, it spells trouble.
Lifeway giving way to some pretty henious books by McLaren and others only shows the problem even further.
Then, to be hooking up with the likes of TD Jakes and Harvest and calling Jakes a Trinitarian, is horrific.