Inauguration: Rick Warren Prays in Name of "Isa," Muslim False "Jesus"
(quote from 'prayer') "I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life, Yeshua, Isa, Jesus, Jesus (hay-SOOS), who taught us to pray, Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. --Rick Warren, from inauguration prayer"
(quote from author) "[I]n his Presidential Inauguration prayer, Rick Warren prayed in the name of "Yeshua," "Isa" and "Jesus."It seems, the three names Warren used were to imply the three "Abrahamic Faiths" (as they are so-called), Judaism, Christianity and Islam.What's significant is the name "Isa" being prayed by the "evangelical" Warren. Isa is strictly Koranic and used by Arab Muslims.
Isa was not Jewish, but Palistinian. Isa did not die on the cross but instead had someone die in his place. Isa is a Muslim prophet. Isa is only found in the Koran. The name Isa doesn't have any Biblical support or any meaning found in Biblical scholarship."
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Warren also used the name of the Jewish false 'Jesus' [cf. 2 Cor. 11:4]:
(quote from 'prayer') "I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life, Yeshua, Isa, Jesus, Jesus (hay-SOOS), who taught us to pray, Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. --Rick Warren, from inauguration prayer"
(quote from author) "[I]n his Presidential Inauguration prayer, Rick Warren prayed in the name of "Yeshua," "Isa" and "Jesus."It seems, the three names Warren used were to imply the three "Abrahamic Faiths" (as they are so-called), Judaism, Christianity and Islam.What's significant is the name "Isa" being prayed by the "evangelical" Warren. Isa is strictly Koranic and used by Arab Muslims.
Isa was not Jewish, but Palistinian. Isa did not die on the cross but instead had someone die in his place. Isa is a Muslim prophet. Isa is only found in the Koran. The name Isa doesn't have any Biblical support or any meaning found in Biblical scholarship."
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Warren also used the name of the Jewish false 'Jesus' [cf. 2 Cor. 11:4]:
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Note: To replace the name of Jesus with the name "Yeshua" cannot be acceptable either, although commonly done today by Judaizers of the Christian faith, as well as many ignorant professing Christians influenced by them. Many justifications are commonly offered as to why it is okay, but these should all be rejected. At best, it is an obfuscation of the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and at worst an outright denial and slur of the only Saviour of mankind. Here is one example of this, relating a story found in the Talmud about "Yeshu". The Talmud is a Jewish extra-biblical source of 'revelation', seen as equal (if not higher) in authority to the 'Torah' [first five books OT] by most Jews. It is full of all sorts of amazing things, not in a good way though. Blasphemy is more descriptive:
Yeshu - A Talmudic Tale
A story about a man named Yeshu can be found in the Talmud. There is debate whether this Yeshu in the Talmud is the same Jesus who later became a Christian divinity.
According to the Talmud, Yeshu was the son of a Jewish woman named Miriam who was betrothed to a carpenter.
"Betrothed" means she was legally married to him, but she was not yet living with him or having sexual relations with him. The story says that Miriam was either raped by or voluntarily slept with Pandeira, a Greek or Roman soldier. Miriam than gave birth to Yeshu, who was considered a "mamzer" (bastard), a product of an adulterous relationship. The Talmud describes Yeshu as a heretic who dabbled in sorcery and lead the people astray. Later, the Sanhedrin (the Jewish "Supreme Court") ordered Yeshu stoned to death and his dead body was hung from a tree until nightfall after his death, in accordance with the ancient Jewish punishment for heretics.
While some believe there is no connection between the Talmudic Yeshu and the Christian Jesus, others believe there is a connection. The main inconsistency between the Talmudic and Christian story is that during the time that Jesus was killed, the Romans ruled and the Sanhedrin did not have the power to impose the death penalty. Thus, some Jews believe that today's popular Christian ideas about Jesus are based on a melding of the Talmudic story of Yeshu and the historian Josephus' writing about Jesus, which included his execution by the Romans. http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/jesus.htm
compare: Rick Warren Speaks At Jewish Temple '06
also: Pseudo Christian Warren Promotes Homosexual Prayer-Partner Robinson 1-14-09
also: Pseudo Christian Warren Promotes Homosexual Prayer-Partner Robinson 1-14-09
One world religion and one world government. You are looking at it.
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Jude:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Jude:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't claim to be an authority, and I'm not a fan of Rick Warren, but I think you've misunderstood what he was doing. It's my understanding that Isa is the normal name used for our Savior by Arabic-speaking people; Yeshua is the normal name used by many Jewish Christians, and the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus needs no explanation to people in my state of Texas. I think Warren was trying to be explicitly multi-cultural and explicitly Christian. After all, some fake savior is not the one who taught us the Lord's prayer. You may want to remember also that "Jesus" has no Biblical support. It's our normal Anglicized pronunciation, and we're free to use it, even though various groups and cults have different definitions of him than I presume and hope you have.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Apostle Paul spoke to the Athenians about their unknown god, he did not say that they had to find a different word for his God. Instead, he simply proclaimed the truth.
Jim,
ReplyDeleteI do understand your point about Warren trying to be explicitly multi-cultural, as you say.
The first problem with this is that in referring to Jesus as 'Isa' in an attempt to be inclusive of the Muslim religion, Warren is making a reference to the Islamic belief of who 'Jesus' is. The Islamic Jesus, Isa, from the Koran, is not God, he is merely a prophet, and a lesser prophet than Muhammad it should be added. This is a subtle denial of the deity of Christ by one who professes to be a Christian.
Islam, of course, recognizes no god but the one they call Allah.
Secondly, many Jewish-Christians (another topic), as you say, do use the name 'Yeshua, but again, the use is spurious at best.
As I'm sure you know, the NT Greek is "Iesous" (ee-ay-sooce'), translated into English as Jesus. I'm well aware of all the controversy surrounding the use of the English word Jesus, and the source of it too, but by faith in the inerrant Word of God (another topic) believe it is the only correct name. Matt. 1:21
My point on Warren's Jewish 'shout out' is that, although many do use it, there is absolutely no warrant to the use of the Hebrew "Yeshua" anywhere in scripture. It is basically a Jewish theory that he would have been called that. From my understanding, no one really knows exactly what the actual Hebrew name might have been. It is not found in scripture anywhere.
But the real problem is that many Jews, those many who reject the deity of Jesus Christ as do Muslims...when they hear that usage will remain unoffended because to them "Yeshua" is a slur, as the referenced Talmudic story in the post gives one example.
(Note: It would not really be a problem to have either 'Isa' or 'Yeshua' praying to "Our father". That's very inclusive actually..."our father"...and does not touch on the question of deity.)
Additionally, to a Kabbalist Jew, and there were certainly many listening on that inaugural day, the name 'Yeshu' or 'Yeshua' means "may his name and memory be blotted out". Research will prove this to be true.
Interesting to note also, adding the 'a' to Yeshu is to feminize the name, in other words, giving to a boy a girl's name. For this reason, many claim that the 'a' is silent.
In my opinion, Warren is merely placating the Jews, and 'purposely' yet subtly denying the Lordship of Jesus Christ in doing so.
And, in my opinion, that is exactly the intent of the 'prayer', it was neither incidental nor accidental. Global interfaith is the only goal.
Christianity must retain it's exclusive claims, primarily the non-negotiable deity of Jesus Christ.
Here here!
ReplyDeleteI beleieve you hit the nail on the head and splained it well.
It may seem subtle and something we should tolerate ( how you spell or pronounce the name Jesus)...but I am not a Moslem...no longer a Jew...certainly a Christian and the gospel I hang my hat on is the one Paul preached. That's it.
An excellent bible teacher I had once scolded me one day when I showed a Jehovah's Witness the door and I think I said God bless you. It seemed rigid at the time. Bottom line is, there is only one Truth and God will not bless distortion of it.
Truth and distortion of it just dosn't go together. Why do that?
And why would a staunch Christian "forget" the bible on the second go round of his oath? Man...there's a guy who shouldn't leave home without it. Dosn't that seem strange?
ABL,
ReplyDeletere: not saying 'God bless you to JW's (or any others for that matter that would come with twisted doctrines, and denying the deity of Jesus Christ).
Probably many people would not understand why that would be any big deal, so to speak. And for them, it should be pointed out that that command actually comes from the apostle John (with the reason why):
2John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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If they have not been washed from their sins in the blood of Christ (Rev. 1:5) there can be only judgment awaiting them. Speak the truth in love....
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2John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Tom M., you're attributing evil motives to Rick Warren without solid evidence. For a word that has multiple meanings, it's wrong to pick-and-choose and decide without good evidence that the speaker meant the worst meaning. "Jesus" and "God" and "Lord" and "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" have each been given a twisted meaning by some. Yet we're free to use them. There's a vast difference between being welcoming toward other cultures and being ashamed of the gospel.
ReplyDeleteTreat Rick Warren and Democrats and Republicans and ultra-liberals and ultra-conservatives and sound Christians and cultists as you'd want to be treated: Speak the truth in love.
Speaking the Truth in love....and exposing error....what was that scripture?....'ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints'
ReplyDeleteRe: "Picking on Rick Warren"
ReplyDeleteJim, Rick Warren has his agenda and that is quite clear. It melds with Agenda 21 actually. His books take scripture and squeeze it into his own purposely driven plan. Scripture that is mis-applied. He's gone global and what might to you to seem "good" like (goin green...see the Starbucks video) is in fact fostering all that the book of Daniel foretold. Unless you fully digest all the works of Mr Warren, you might come to the conclusion that Tom is nit picking.
No Jim. I don't agree with you.
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
2 Tim 4:3,4.
...and Tom. Thanks for 2 John 9-11
Same scripture my teacher gave me that day of the J. Witness visit to my house! There's a difference between being "tolerant" and kind to your neighbor as yourself...and asking God to bless someone in their mission to dispense untruth.
Jim,
ReplyDeletere: evidence
1 John 2:23 'Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father'
It was not only the closing portion, there were actually some other problems with Warren's inclusive prayer. Very big problems, from a true Christian perspective.
First, Warren opened his prayer by quoting the Shema, the most important prayer in Judaism: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."
Without question, to a Jew, this prayer is a direct denial of the Christian teaching of the trinity, i.e. once again, denying the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It would be inconceivable to believe that Warren would not understand this.
Secondly, In the next phrase he spoke of God as "the compassionate and merciful one," which are the very words religious Muslims always use when they pray to 'Allah'.
It would be inconceivable to believe that Warren would not understand this also.
The Jews have rejected Jesus Christ, and the Muslim does not recognize him as God in the flesh.
Both of these statements then, intended for their target audiences, are ABSOLUTELY irreconcilable with the Christian doctrine of the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
That is the only point. Welcoming other cultures is not a problem, but even tacitly endorsing the beliefs of religions that contradict "the doctrine of Christ", as was done, is not something a real believer in the Lord Jesus Christ could do...because he really believes the scripture that says:
"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father"
That Christian teaching is very clear, and the job of a Christian preacher is to state it clearly to his hearers, if he does in fact believe it himself.
That message is nowhere to be found in Warren's clever inter-faith prayer. He should have just come right out and announced that he would be giving an inter-faith prayer. Nobody could say a word then.
until then...earnestly contend
Tom M., I had not read the entirety of Mr. Warren's prayer until now. I have much, much more trouble with other parts of it than with its reference to Jesus by three names.
ReplyDeleteYou're right that in the context of the occasion, repeating the Shema (Hear, O Israel...) and referring to God as "the compassionate and merciful one" is misleading or worse.
I'm also troubled by the statement, "And we know today that Dr. King and a great cloud of witnesses are shouting in Heaven." While it's true that there is a great cloud of heavenly witnesses, it's not clear from the Bible that they are witnessing us. It may be that they or their lives are witnessing TO us. (I do rejoice in the fact that our nation is able to elect a man of Obama's color. Judging people's leadership abilities by skin color is evil.)
I'm troubled by the prayer's statement that we're "Americans, united not by race or religion or blood, but to our commitment to freedom and justice for all," then asking, "when we fight each other, when we forget you, forgive us." From a Christian viewpoint, it's inappropriate to imply that forgiveness is available to people who permanently reject the truth of Jesus. We should pray for their forgiveness (as did Jesus and Stephen), but only in the context of recognizing their sin as sin.
Finally, the prayer's request for "a new birth of clarity in our aims" clouds the issue of people's need for a new birth spiritually.
May the Lord have mercy on Mr. Warren and on President Obama, granting them full faith in Jesus and full repentance of sins.
Good points Jim
ReplyDeleteThanks
Jim,
ReplyDeleteHere, here...
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On a side note, in regard to the great cloud of witnesses from Hebrews 12...I take that 'cloud' as being the very ones mentioned in the previous chapter (11th) of Hebrews
...from Abel, Noah, Enoch, and Abraham, to some of the others mentioned (v. 33) "Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, (etc. vs. 34-37)
[those](Of whom the world was not worthy)... And these all, having obtained a good report through faith..."(vs. 38-39)
As you were saying, it is their lives that have left a lasting witness TO us. They lived by faith 'looking forward' to the promise...and received a good report...so then we who having now received the promise should be encouraged and by faith 'look' also.
"Let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith"
Rev. 18:4